Monday, February 11, 2008

A Transcedental Argument for Logic

Here is a good Transcendental argument for Logic by; Matt Slick from www.Carm.org

This is an attempt to demonstrate the existence of God using logical absolutes. The oversimplified argument, which is expanded in outline form below, goes as follows. Logical absolutes exist. Logical absolutes are conceptual by nature, are not dependent on the space, time, physical properties, or human nature.
They are not the product of the physical universe (space, time, matter) because if the physical universe were to disappear, logical absolutes would still be true. Logical Absolutes are not the product of human minds because human minds are different, not absolute. But, since logical absolutes are always true everywhere and not dependent upon human minds, it must be an absolute transcendent mind is authoring them. This mind is called God

Logical Absolutes form the basis of rational discourse

If the Logical Absolutes are not absolute, then truth cannot be known.
If the Logical Absolutes are not absolute, then no rational discourse can occur.
For example, I could say that a square is a circle (violating the law of identity), or that I am and am not alive in the same sense at the same time (violating the law of non contradiction).
But no one would expect to have a rational conversation with someone who spoke in contradictory statements.
If Logical Absolutes are not always true, then it might be true that something can contradict itself which would make truth unknowable and rational discourse impossible. But, saying that something can contradict itself can't be true.
But since we know things are true (I exist, you are reading this), then we can conclude that logical statements are true, otherwise we would not be able to rational discuss or know truth.
If they are not the basis of rational discourse, then we cannot know truth or error since the laws that govern rationality are not absolute. This would allow people to speak irrationally, i.e., blue sleeps faster than Wednesday.

Logical Absolutes are transcendent

Logical Absolutes are not dependent on space.
They do not stop being true dependent on location. If we traveled a million light years in a direction, logical absolutes are still true.
Logical Absolutes are not dependent on time.
They do not stop being true dependent on time. If we traveled a billion in the future or past, logical absolutes are still true.
Logical Absolutes are not dependent on people. That is, they are not the product of human thinking.

People's minds are different. What one person considers to be absolute may not be what another considers to be absolute. People often contradict each other. Therefore, Logical Absolutes cannot be the product of human, contradictory minds.
If Logical Absolutes were the product of human minds, then they would cease to exist if people ceased to exist which would mean they would be dependent on human minds. But this cannot be so per the previous point.

Logical Absolutes are not dependent on the material world

Logical Absolutes are not found in atoms, motion, heat, under rocks, etc.
Logical Absolutes cannot be photographed, frozen, weighed, or measured.
Logical Absolutes are not the product of the physical universe since that would mean they were contingent on atoms, motion, heat, etc. and that their nature was dependent on physical existence.
If their nature were dependent upon physical existence, they would cease to exist when the physical universe ceases to exist.
But, if the universe did not exist, logical absolutes are still true.
For example, if the universe did not exist it is still true that something cannot bring itself into existence, that anything that did exist would have an identity, and that whatever could exist could not be itself and not itself at the same time.
Therefore, they are not dependent on the material world.

Logical Absolutes are conceptual by nature

Logic is a process of the mind. Logical absolutes provide the framework for logical thought processes. Therefore, Logical Absolutes are conceptual by nature.
If they are conceptual by nature, they are not dependent upon the physical universe for their existence.
Thoughts reflect the mind
A person's thoughts reflect what he or she is.
Absolutely perfect thoughts reflect an absolutely perfect mind.
Since the Logical Absolutes are transcendent, absolute, are perfectly consistent, and are independent of the universe, then they reflect a transcendent, absolute, perfect, and independent mind.
We call this transcendent, absolute, perfect, and independent mind, God.

Objections Answered

Logical Absolutes are the result of natural existence
In what sense are they the result of natural existence? How do conceptual absolutes form as a result of the existence of matter?
Logical Absolutes simply exist.
This is begging the question and does not provide an explanation for their existence. Simply saying they exist is not an answer.

Logical Absolutes are conventions.

A convention, in this context, is an agreed upon principle. But since people differ on what is and is not true, then logical absolutes cannot be the product of human minds and therefore are not the product of human conventions; that is, of human agreements.
This would mean that logical absolutes were invented upon an agreement by a sufficient number of people. But this would mean that logical absolutes with a product of human minds which cannot be the case since human minds differ and are often contradictory. Furthermore, the nature of logical absolutes is that the trend send space and time and are absolute by nature. Therefore, they could not be the product of human minds are finite and not absolute.

Logical Absolutes are eternal.
What is meant by stating they are eternal?
If a person says that logical absolutes have always existed, then how is it they could exist without a mind (if the person denies the existence of an absolute and transcendent mind)?
Logical Absolutes are uncaused
Since the nature of logic is conceptual and logical absolutes form the framework of this conceptual process known as logic, it would be logical to conclude that the only way logical absolutes could be uncaused, as if there was an uncaused and absolute mind authoring them.

Logical Absolutes are self authenticating.
This means it logical absolutes validate themselves. While this is true, it does not explain their existence.
It is begging the question. It just says the are, because they are.
Logical Absolutes are like rules of chess which are not absolute and transcendent.
The rules of chess are human inventions since Chess is a game invented by people. In fact, the rules of chess have changed over the years, but logical absolutes have not. So, comparing the rules of chess to logical absolutes is invalid.
There are different kinds of logic
Saying there are different kinds of logic does not explain the existence of logical absolutes.
"Logical absolutes need no transcendental existence: saying "they would be true even if matter didn't exist" is irrelevant, because we're concerned with their existence, not their logical validity. Saying "the idea of a car would still exist even if matter didn't exist" doesn't imply that your car is transcendental. (reductio ad absurdum)"
Why do logical absolute need no transcendental existence? Simply saying they don't need a transcendental existence doesn't account for their existence. "Need" deals with desire and wants, which are irrelevant to the discussion of the nature of logical absolutes.
Also, why is it irrelevant to say that they would be true even if matter didn't exist? On the contrary, it is precisely relevant to the discussion since we're dealing with the nature of logical absolutes which are conceptual realities, not physical ones.
The illustration that a car would still exist if matter did not exist is illogical. By definition, a car is made of matter and if matter did not exist, a car could not logically exist. By contrast, logical absolutes are not made of matter. The objection is invalid.

"Logical abstractions do not have existence independent of our minds. They are constructs in our minds (i.e. brains), and we use them to carry out computations via neural networks, silicon networks, etc. Suggested by the fact that logic - like language - is learned, not inbuilt. (ball's in your court to demonstrate an independent existence, or problem with this)" (...continued in next objection...)
How do you know that logical abstractions do not have existence independent of our minds? Saying so, doesn't make it so. This is precisely one of the points about the nature of logical absolutes; namely, that they are a process of the mind but are not dependent upon human bodies because human minds contradict each other and are also self-contradictory. This would preclude our minds from being the authors of what is logically absolute. Furthermore, if they are constructions of our minds, then all I have to do is claim victory in any argument because that is how I construct my logical abstractions. But, of course, you wouldn't accept this as being valid. Therefore, this demonstrates your assertion is incorrect. No
(continued from previous objection...) "Logical absolutes are absolute not because of some special quality, but because we judge them using logic. Therefore their absoluteness doesn't arise from any special ontological quality. (category error on your part)"

You are begging the question. You use logic to demonstrate logical absolutes are absolute. You are not giving a rational reason for their existence. Instead, you assume their existence and argue accordingly.
Furthermore, when you presuppose the validity of logical absolutes to demonstrate that they are absolute, you contradict your statement in your previous objection about them being constructs of human minds. They cannot be constructs of human minds because human minds contradict each other and themselves.
I do not see any category mistake on my part. The nature of logical absolutes is that they are conceptual, not physical. This is something I have brought out before so that their categories do not get mixed. The nature of logical absolutes is exactly relevant to the question.
(continued from previous objection...) "Logical absolutes can be accurately described as conventions in communication. The fact that they are widely employed does not imply anything transcendental, any more than the wide employment of the word "lolly" as something small and yummy implies that the word "lolly" is transcendental. (non sequitor)
Saying that they are "widely employed does not imply anything transcendental" is inaccurate. Something that is transcendental, as in logical absolutes, would naturally be widely employed because they are valid. You have recognized that they are widely used, but they are because they are transcendent. They do not become transcendent because they are widely used.
This still does not account for the existence of logical absolutes. And
(continued from previous objection...) "Logical processes are clearly carried out by material constructs, usually neural or electrical. They do this without any known "input" or "guidance" from anything transcendental, which makes you wonder why anything transcendental is needed in the equation at all. (reality check)
You haven't defined "material construct" or what you mean by neural or electrical (constructs). If you mean a computer or something of that kind, this doesn't help you at all because humans designed them using logic. If you mean that they are the process of the human brain, you still haven't solved the problem of their existence since the implication would be that if our minds do not exist, logical absolutes would not exist either. But this would mean that logical absolutes were not absolute but dependent upon human minds. Again the problem would be that human minds are different and contradict each other. Therefore, logical absolutes, which are not contradictory, cannot be the product of minds that are contradictory.
You don't have to know the input or understand the guidance from anything transcendental for the transcendentals to be true.

"Logic is one of those characteristics that any healthy human 'has'. It's not free to vary from one person to the next for the same kind of reason that 'number of eyes' is a value that doesn't vary between healthy humans."
Saying that logic is something that everyone "has" does not explain its existence. Essentially this is begging the question; stating that something exists because it exists.
The analogy of "eyes" is a category mistake. Eyes are organs. Different organisms have different kinds of eyes and different numbers of eyes. Logic is consistent and independent of biological structures.
Logic is the result of the semantics of the language which we have chosen: a statement is a theorem of logic if and only if it is valid in all conceivable worlds. If the language is trivalent (true/indetermined/false), tertium non datur is invalid. Uniformity of the universe can be rationally expected in a non-theistic universe. If there is no one around with the transcendental power to change it, why should the behavior of the universe tomorrow differ from its behavior today?
"semantics of the language". Semantics deals with the study of the meaning of words, their development, changes in meaning, and the interpretation of words, etc. But semantics by nature deals with the changing meaning of words and the often subjective nature of language and its structures. To say that the absolutes of logic are a result of the use of the subjective meanings of words, is problematic. How do you derive logical absolutes from the non-absolute semantic structures of non absolute languages?
Furthermore, simply asserting that logic is result of the semantics of the language does not explain the transcendent nature of logic. Remember, the TAG argument asserts that Logical Absolutes are independent of human existence -- reasons given at beginning of the paper. Since language, in this context, is a result of human existence, the argument would suggest that logic came into existence when language came into existence. But this would invalidate the nature of logical absolutes and their transcendent characteristics. Therefore, this objection is invalid.

If logic is the result of language, then logic came into existence with language. This cannot be for the reasons stated above.
If logic is the result of language and since language rules change, then can we conclude that the laws of logic would also change? If so, then the laws of logic are not laws, they are not absolute.
Saying that "a statement is a theorem of logic" does not account for logic but presupposes existence of logic. This is begging the question.

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